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Please note that any comments expressed in these forum posts do not reflect the opinions of Medical News Today in any way at all. Opinions posted in this forum do not constitute medical
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Flawed Science
posted by Raul Ramos y Sanchez on 06 May 2007 at 6:37 am
RE: African-American And Hispanic Patients Receive Less Palliative And Lifesaving Treatment.
While undoubtedly well meaning, this article is scientifically flawed. It is based on the assumption that “Hispanic” is a racial category. Please check with the only “official” definition of Hispanic, that of the U.S. Census Bureau. (http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hispanic/hispdef.html) The Census Bureau clearly states that “persons of Hispanic origin may be of any race.” This article categorizes patients as either African-American, Hispanic or White, creating the assumption that a Hispanic could be neither Caucasian or Negroid. This is dangerously wrong.
While the concept of race is primarily a social construct, there is solid evidence of medical proclivities among members of genetically similar groups. Sickle cell anemia and certain types of skin cancers are two prominent examples. However, people labeled Hispanic are not a single race. The genetic variation of people named Garcia can be as diverse as that of those named Johnson.
The authors of this article, along with similar studies that use Hispanic as a racial category, should be challenged for using poor scientific methods.
Read the news article that this opinion was posted about:
African-American And Hispanic Patients Receive Less Palliative And Lifesaving Treatment
The Semantics Of the word Hispanic in Europe and the USA
posted by Dr. Carlos Balboa on 06 May 2007 at 9:36 am
I have worked as a doctor in the USA, Spain and the UK. From what I can gather, the word Hispanic has two meanings (I suggest not bothering looking things up in books and census, they need updating - the semantics of words are always changing, especially in English).
Hispanic (European Meaning) - A person from a country where SPanish is spoken as the mother tongue. The word is geographical and does not refer to race.
Hispanic (USA meaning) - Amerindians and Mestizos (mixed race of Amerindian and non-Amerindian) of Latin America.
I am 100% sure Hispanic has no other meaning in the USA. I have asked several people whether they would class a white Spaniard as a Hispanic, and every single one has said no.
Therefore, I suggest that when reading US studies, one bears this in mind when seeing the word Hispanic.
Follow Up To Dr. Balboa
posted by Raul Ramos y Sanchez on 08 May 2007 at 5:44 am
Thank you, Dr. Balboa, for your thorough rebuttal to my challenge of the scientific premise of the original article. [African-American And Hispanic Patients Receive Less Palliative And Lifesaving Treatment.]
Your carefully conducted sampling (" I have asked several people") and your sage advice to ignore any factual information ("I suggest not bothering looking things up in books and census") clearly refutes my challenge to the scientific veracity of this study.
If this is the level of scientific rigor we can expect from medical practitioners, the public should be warned.
Sincerely,
Raul Ramos y Sanchez
If this is the level of scientific rigor we can expect from medical practioners, the public should be warned.
Sincerely,
Raul Ramos y Sanchez
I Agree With Dr. Balboa
posted by Enrique Salbatini on 08 May 2007 at 7:00 am
I have taught Spanish in the UK and the USA and agree totally with Dr. Balboa. One can read in books till blue in the face. But I go by what I hear and see in each continent, and he is right.
Dr. Balboa Has A Point
posted by Maria Cossio on 08 May 2007 at 7:02 am
Most of my Mexican friends who live in the UK would agree with Dr. Balboa, while most of my Mexican American friends would not. As far as I am concerned, just this fact makes me think Dr. Balboa is right.
My Experience
posted by Pablo Herrero on 08 May 2007 at 7:09 am
I was at secondary school in Australia and Texas. I am Peruvian. In Australia I was Peruvian, in Texas I was 'Hispanic'. I am half Peruvian Indian. I agree with Dr. Balboa. In the USA Hispanic refers to a Latin American who looks indigenous. In other parts of the world, Hispanic means from a Spanish-speaking country.
I too go by what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears, rather than taking the academic route and burying myself in census and documents. There is too much of that - perusing over papers, rather than looking at the world as it really is.
If an American sees a blonde blue-eyed Spaniard, he would not call him a Hispanic, an Australian would. I rest my case.
Confused By Facts?
posted by Raul Ramos y Sanchez on 08 May 2007 at 7:46 am
To those who agree with Dr. Balboa,
I hope your eccentric classification of "Hispanic" is clearly posted in all medical schools, hospitals, and medical offices. Otherwise the day will come (if it has not happened already) when someone labeled “Hispanic” is misdiagnosed.
Are you certain that your judgment about a person’s race is shared by every doctor, nurse, and medical researcher in the United States? While you personally may feel qualified to make a judgment about a person’s race, most Americans have been led to believe that anyone with a Spanish surname is “Hispanic.” Every year, our medical and nursing schools are graduating professionals who have been trained using articles and studies that classify Hispanic as racial group.
The evidence you offer is anecdotal. I am dealing in facts as defined by the U.S. Census Bureau. I believe it is dangerously irresponsible to suggest we ignore facts and use some fuzzy, personal definition of a group that the majority of the American public (and likely most medical practitioners) considers a racial category.
Raul Ramos y Sanchez
Rubbish
posted by Barbara Chavez on 08 May 2007 at 8:55 am
The US Census Bureau bears no resemblance to what really happens in America. I agree with Dr. Balboa and the others - in the USA the term 'Hispanic' is a purely racial one, not cultural or geographical.
I am from Spain, and Hispanic in my country means from a Spanish speaking country. I worked as a nurse in California and can assure you I only ever heard the term Hispanic used there when referring to Amerindians south of the border. The term may be wrong, the census may contradict US usage of that term - but as far as I am concerned, that is all I heard over there.
I see the insistence on sticking to the Census term akin to Don Quixote fighting windmills. Americans will never stick to the proper meaning.
Hispanic Is A Racial Term In The USA
posted by David Ospi on 08 May 2007 at 9:01 am
Ask an American policeman or border control guard what the term Hispanic means. The answer is pretty clear - he/she will give you a description about height, skin color, hair color - you will hear nothing about what language he/she speaks, etc. In America, Hispanic refers to a person's race - accept it. Because that is the way it is. I am Guatemalan and live in England, I have only ever heard the term applied to race in the USA - and have NEVER heard it used any other way in that country.
Thank You, Ms. Chavez
posted by Raul Ramos y Sanchez on 08 May 2007 at 9:20 am
Ms. Chavez,
You prove my point exactly. If the term “Hispanic” is a euphemism for “Amerindians south of the border,” why not used this more precise racial term in a medical study?
There is no place in medical studies for semantic imprecision. The authors of the study should say what they mean or find another term. To do otherwise is misleading.
Your argument merely underscores my original complaint. A study that uses “Hispanic” as a racial group is scientifically flawed.
Raul Ramos y Sanchez
It's Been Like That For Ages
posted by Oliver Gordon on 08 May 2007 at 10:46 am
I worked for several years collating and 'adapting' records of scientific studies at the British Library, London, UK. Since the mid 1980s we were ordered to replace the words Hispanic with Latin American Indian for any studies or articles that came from the USA. This is nothing new - the USA is known worldwide for using that term as a racial group, rather than a Geographical one.
It is a bit late to try and undo decades of semantic evolution. If the word has changed its meaning over there, accept it and do something about it, and establish a norm, rather than trying to turn a tide. A bit like insisting on the old meaning of Gay (happy). and resisting its modern meaning.
I would suggest writing to the Census and getting them to update their information - rather than labouring under the illusion of being able to do anything.
Come On!!
posted by Dr. Felipe Robinson on 08 May 2007 at 10:50 am
Raul Ramos y Sanchez must be the only person in the world that is unaware of this established usage in the USA. I am half Spanish and half British and have NEVER seen an American medical/scientific article where Hispanic does not refer to a racial group. It is a bit late to put the finger back in the hole - the dam burst many years ago in the USA. You cannot go back in time any more. For as long as I can remember, the meaning changed many, many years ago on that side of the Atlantic.
Earth To Ramos
posted by Javier Zamorra on 08 May 2007 at 10:55 am
Earth to Raul Ramos y Sanchez!! Where have you been for the last thirty years? Wake up!!!
Methinks Thou Dost Protest Too Much
posted by Raul Ramos y Sanchez on 08 May 2007 at 11:37 am
It seems I've touched a nerve in the medical community. Rather than admit the imprecision in the use of the term Hispanic, I've read a number of half-baked defenses for perpetuating a misconception. Everyone admits the term is inaccurate. Yet no one has the courage to stand up for clarity. Mostly, I hear the sound of minds clamping shut.
It is the credibility of U.S. medical research that is at stake here. Ultimately, it is those in the medical community too lazy or afraid to stand up for the truth who will be judged by their lack of integrity and courage. My conscience is clear. Is yours?
Raul Ramos y Sanchez
Interesting
posted by Jorge Lucas on 08 May 2007 at 11:57 am
It is interesting that all the comments seem to come from people who live outside the USA. It is obviously something Americans have no interest in - otherwise they would have commented.
It is not the first time this issue has surged. I remember the same arguments about 15 years ago - but nothing came of it. That, Ramos, I think is the gist of what people here are trying to say. Do not accuse them of having no backbone - read all the opinions here - none of them live in the USA - why should America depend on people who live abroad to sort out their credibility? Where are the American opinons??? Sort it out yourselves, but let us give our opinions!!
Jorge Lucas
Residing in Barcelona, Spain
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