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Please note that any comments expressed in these forum posts do not reflect the opinions of Medical News Today in any way at all. Opinions posted in this forum do not constitute medical
advice, which should be sought from qualified medical advisers. Disclaimer.
Vaccination
posted by Michael Nightingale on 03 July 2007 at 2:10 am
Data on the adverse effects of vaccination have always been ignored and/or suppressed. Like the Athenasean Creed it may not be questioned.
Perhaps, at last, a new approach to vaccination will be possible
Read the news article that this opinion was posted about:
Vaccinated Children Two And A Half Times More Likely To Have Neurological Disorders Like ADHD And Autism, New Survey In California And Oregon Finds
More junk science
posted by Good grief on 09 Nov 2010 at 10:43 pm
The anti-vax group would gain a lot more credibility if they stopped doing faulty research and then making lofty claims based on the results.
There is very clearly two different groups in this study - those who trust the medical professionals, and those who don't. It takes a certain kind of parent to chose not to vaccinate, and they are very likely to be the same kind of parent who either won't seek assessment for such things as ADHD, or rejects the findings of the doctors because it is an 'over-diagnosed condition.'
The only way to get a meaningful results would be to look at the kids who have been assessed and diagnosed, and look at the vaccination records among them. That, or conduct assessments of the children who were not vaccinated, and get an accurate reflection of what their diagnosis is (not parent self-reports), and the compare the numbers across vaccinated and non-vaccinated kids.
Scientists are highly trained to create and conduct the best research possible, free of bias and flaws (in this case, a sampling flaw). The mere fact that the anit-vax studies are NOT being conducted in such a way leads me to believe that either:
A)these particular scientists are carefully conducting biased studies or
B) these particular scientists don't know the difference.
Neither of which bodes well.
Please, remove your emotional reaction, and look critically at everything.
Don't be Ignorant - This was a Survey
posted by Good Grief to Good Grief on 10 Nov 2010 at 1:12 pm
I would like to respond to Good Griefs' comments. First, this article is based on a survey, not a research project. Those so called "lofty claims" are merely the results of this survey.
Vaccine facts not opinions.
posted by Daren Joseph on 10 Nov 2010 at 1:24 pm
The scientific evidence clearly indicates that vaccinations never provided immunity for any childhood diseases. The main advances in combating disease over 200 years have been attributed only to better food, clean drinking water and better sanitation. Here's an informative link based on medical statistics conducted over the past 200 years.
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fchildhealthsafety.wordpress.com%2Fgraphs%2F&h=91ead
facts
posted by George Jones on 10 Nov 2010 at 2:04 pm
Eeerrrmmm, how are scientists unbiased when they're on big-pharma payrolls ? This is easy enough to check. The majority of studies saying vaccines don't cause autism are paid for by the vaccine industry.
Get your own facts straight.
why more boys?
posted by Anne on 10 Nov 2010 at 6:33 pm
I am a trained epidemiologist. If boys and girls have the same vaccination rates...why do boys account for 80% of all neurological disorder cases as stated?
I agree that comparing vaccinated children with not vaccinated children is difficult. There are many many differences between children whose parents do not vaccinate. You would have to control for all of these factors in your model, which data would need to be carefully collected. Also, there are no confidence intervals listed for the RR 's in the telephone survey.
why more boys
posted by jespren on 11 Nov 2010 at 5:07 am
In answer to a previous query about why more boys, boys brains develop at a different rate and order than females, which makes them more likely to have neurological issues when effected during late neonatal development and early childhood.
Yes! More boys than girls
posted by Ann on 11 Nov 2010 at 10:16 am
Boys DO have a higher rate of autism - this has been known for many years. Perhaps it hormonal? Estrogen protects, testosterone doesn't? Check out the latest research.
To vaccinate or not to vaccinate...
posted by Teresa Allen on 11 Nov 2010 at 10:24 pm
Just because some of us choose not to vaccinate does not mean that when our child needs medical attention we don't take them to the doctor! Good grief!
The choice to not vaccinate comes from educating ourselves on the toxic and dangerous chemicals that are IN vaccines. The only way to make an informed decision is to research and educate ourselves with everything we can.
I used to be on the other side of the fence. I had no idea what vaccines did in the body or what was even IN the vaccines. I trusted my kids' doctors and was a "good little patient". It was only after my 16 year old daughter was injured from the Gardasil vaccine that I began researching vaccines and the horrible ingredients in them. What I found was shocking and heartbreaking.
There are so many parents in the same situation that I have found myself in. Once your child is vaccine injured its almost impossible to find any help from the medical community! The doctors turn their backs on us and flat out refuse to believe that our child was injured from a vaccine. We are left with having to nurse our sick and injured child alone...trying to find something to help our child feel and get better. Sometimes the child dies and we have no recourse...the vaccine manufacturers are immune from lawsuits. Once the child is vaccine injured, we as parents are left with unbelievable guilt for not doing our own research.
My daughter was a healthy, happy and active teenager before 2 rounds of Gardasil. She was an A B student and was rarely sick. Now she is sick almost every day. She cannot attend school. She has SO many health problems now and the doctors and hospitals are no help.
VAERS has over 20,000 reports of adverse events and 84 deaths associated with Gardasil. This is estimated to be only 1 to 10 percent of the true numbers. http://www.truthaboutgardasil.org
If vaccines work then our unvaccinated children should be no threat to vaccinated children. I'm constantly reading where unvaccinated are a health threat to the vaccinated. But the opposite is actually true. When someone is vaccinated with let's say the h1n1 or whooping cough vaccines, they shed the virus for up to 21 days. This makes them contageous! If they come in contact with an unvaccinated child, that child could be infected!
Please just do your own research into vaccines and their ingredients. Then research those toxic chemicals and decide for yourself...do you really want those poisons injected into your child?
This evidence should generate a properly funded government survey
posted by Jenny Allan on 11 Nov 2010 at 10:59 pm
The comments of 'Good Grief' and 'Anne' are all too predictable and frankly they make me sick!! Here we go again; these estsblishment apologists trot out those same old allegations of 'junk science' and badly designed surveys which would NEVER be good enough for 'properly trained' scientists and epidemiologists. How foolish for members of the public to listen to a bunch of rank amateurs!!
I am a 'trained scientist', including statistical analysis, a pensioner in my sixties and a trained teacher and I would like to stick each of these patronizing so called 'scientists', on their own, into a class of 30+ schoolchildren with even ONE autistic or ADHT child to contend with. The last class I had contact with had one such child. The education authority took on a child psychologist and care assistant just for HIM!! Fortunately I am now retired!!
There were NO such children when I was at school in the 1950s.
The recent explosion in autistic spectrum and attention deficit disorders is just CRYING OUT for some proper government funded research into the reasons for this. No one knows why boys are affected more than girls, but we MUST find out and SOON. WE can then find out how to STOP this holocaust from continuing.
'Real scientists', what are you waiting for??
Vaccinated Children
posted by GreenYourLife on 12 Nov 2010 at 1:52 am
I testified before the board of health yesterday because the CDC wants to keep thimerosal in the vaccines because their lead researcher at the CDC said it was safe based on a flawed Danish study that posed a conflict of interest causing ht lead researcher to disappear with 2 million. Thank goodness the Professor just published a new study on thimerosal in Vthe medical veritas, Russell Blaylock published study, and many others.
Really? To quote the late Afred Zan from the CBS 60 minutes segment, "Is there mercury in your mouth", "we are arguing if a poison is a poison." It is a very strange argument!
It is like the Mad Hatter syndrome full on. We are so poisoned that we have to argue a point that has no point at all! Like the Mad Hatter! To make it crystal clear for you out there, when your child is vaccinated and dies on the Pediatrician's table, you have the direct cause and the effect. or your child stops talking, walking, eating, and has a vacant look after 30 vaccines, again you have the cause and effect, I guess the reason for vaccine court, right?
So take the vaccine or it's off with your head mentality only serves to prove my point. Is anyone awake out there?!
outrageous
posted by Bella on 12 Nov 2010 at 8:11 am
Is it true that there was only 10 pediatric vaccines recommended in 1983 and there are 36 recommended now? Anyone have any links with more info on this?
Outrageous!!
No PROPER study has been done...
posted by Health Science Guy on 12 Nov 2010 at 12:18 pm
There are some good points in this thread however the majority of those posting are not thinking things through properly...
Jenny Allen: You are quite right that there were NO such children in the schools in the 50's. So where do you think they were back there? Neurological disorders were not understood or diagnosed properly back then and many of the children with such disorders were kept out of the public eye because of the stigma that society put on such people and their families. Vaccinations did not "create" these disorders and it would be ignorant to imply that they did. There are way too many factors that have changed over the last 60 years to scientifically make a comparison between the average classroom in the '50s and now.
Another thing - to claim that there are more children with Autism and ADHD in the vaccinated group than the non vaccinated group is truly putting the blinders on until a proper study is completed. The study should NOT be based on a bunch of phone interviews summarizing the OPINIONS of uneducated parents self diagnosing their own children. It's a laugh. The author of the article has even put in a disclaimer into his own article stating that no one has ever made a comparison of the prevalence rates of neurological disorders between the 2 groups. He goes on to add that the phone survey "isn't perfect". (It is FAR from perfect. Try to get an article verified by a group of peers and published in a REPUTABLE scientific journal based on a couple of phone(y) surveys).
So come on people! Use your heads, research REAL facts and studies (normally more difficult to obtain than a simple Google search) and make sound decisions that will PROTECT our next generation.
I know for a fact its the vaccines
posted by Debbie C on 12 Nov 2010 at 1:10 pm
I have 4 children my first two are now 23 (Girl)and 19(Boy)They BOTH are normal because they did NOT take half the shots they are giving children now.My youngest two are 10 (Boy) and 6 (Boy) they BOTH have Autism because they DID take the shots now you tell me why my oldest two DONT have Autism and why my youngest 2 do?Its because of the vaccines they can say its not because of the shots all they want but i know better.And when the truth comes out i hope they have to pay just like us parents are for the rest of our lives just because its a state law the kids have to have there shots or can NOT attend a public school.And because of that we are dealing with speical needs children now over stupid shots that as a child i NEVER took,if we got the measels we got them if we got the mumps we got them and we DID NOT DIE so why now?
Boys are more physically aggressive
posted by Mary Koehler on 12 Nov 2010 at 3:00 pm
The simple fact that boys tend to be more aggressive than females would account for the higher incidences of ADD, etc. due to falls that can jar the brain and release the mercury stored in other parts of the body to circulate.
Ihave been recording the mercury consciousnous of people from the embryo stage. If the subject is sensitive to the vaccines, they invariably have a 20 to 40 point drop in IQ through adulthood unless they have detoxified their bodies.
Good Gravy!
posted by Koala on 14 Nov 2010 at 3:30 am
It doesnt surprise me at all. Although when you compare vaxxed and unvaxxed children you have to take into account that unvaxxed children are more likely to have better nutrition, not be being pumped full of antibiotics, cold meds and other OTC drugs, be breastfed and avoid overstimulation from tv and games.
I have to laugh at the idea that people that dont vax their kids must just ignore diagnoses or not take their kids to the Dr if seriously ill. Perhaps its more the other way Good Grief and there are tons and tons of kids being diagnosed with ADHD and handed out Ritalin like candy because its easier and cheaper than dealing with the real issues.
Thinking things through properly
posted by Jenny Allan on 14 Nov 2010 at 9:32 am
Health Science Guy asks me, concerning children with ADHD and autism spectrum disorders:-
'So where do you think they were back there? Neurological disorders were not understood or diagnosed properly back then and many of the children with such disorders were kept out of the public eye?'
HSG- I assume that you were not 'around' in the 1960's. You are correct in your assumption that many children were locked away. These included those with Downs Syndrome and other chromosomal disorders. Yes! There WERE children with autism in those days, but it was extremely rare. These days, in the UK, one child in 65 is 'on the spectrum'.
I find it very patronising of you to accuse me of 'not thinking things through properly.' I do not have to 'think' about how things were in the 1950s. I was ALIVE then. Numbers of children with chromosomal and neurological disorders were miniscule then and we all knew who and where these children were within our own neighbourhoods.
I am not anti vaccination, just pro SAFE vaccinations. Like yourself, I am very keen to see some PROPERLY CONDUCTED and funded research into the reasons for this recent explosion in autism spectrum disorders.
Would like to add
posted by Cara on 16 Nov 2010 at 10:05 am
Yes, and Generation Rescues survey mirrored how the CDC conducts their surveys. So Good Grief's comment seems to be saying that the Government's own CDC is inept at conducting a scientific study or survey!
More than the vaccine at play
posted by Carole Loulo on 22 Nov 2010 at 5:05 pm
I am one of these parents who chose not to vaccine for reasons I won't go into because you have heard them all. Among my friends who have made the same decision I have noticed certain similarities: we all eat a mainly organically grown food diet, 99% of our meals are made at home (no chemicals, no pre made stuff, no fast food...), we spend most of our free time outside hiking, biking, etc., we do not have a television, we very strictly limit the amount of sugar our children eat, etc.
So, as a biologist myself, I think all of this should be taken into account when doing a study about neurological disorder. Perhaps what is keeping the unvaccinated children safe is any (or all of the above): time outside and lots of exercise, healthy food, etc.
Stressed & confused
posted by Barry on 01 Mar 2011 at 11:45 am
I am a parent who, after much research, decided not to vaccinate my children. I am, however, routinely harrangued by some in the medical profession who appear to have done no research. I just want to know the cold facts of vaccination risks, and do what is best for my children, but am met with hysteria from both sides of the argument, leaving me confused and anxious. My final decision is that my children are healthy at the moment. If they become sick we will deal with it. In the meantime I am not prepared to allow others to inject them with potentially harmful vaccines when there is so much contention and contradictory research flying around.
They are over vaccinated!!
posted by Linda on 28 Jun 2011 at 10:29 pm
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the pharmaceutical industry makes money off these vaccinations via govt or whatnot. It's time to stop using kids as Guinea pigs. I hate this over vaccinating children. It really irks me when people reply to things like this that have never dealt with a child suffering from ADHD or Autism to say that it's okay to keep sticking 36 needles of poison into the children to make the companies involved that lobby for this HAPPY. It totally is wrong and I hate hate hate vaccinations. FORCED VACCINATIONS!!!! It should be up to the parents, not the government that makes you sign papers releasing them of liabilities.
hmmm - not vaccinating children
posted by Anon on 27 Oct 2011 at 8:51 am
Perhaps the differences are because the children that weren't vaccinated have parents that go to a lot of trouble to research everything and are prepared to make a stand against what they see as a threat to their child... so this would suggest a much stricter diet and other significant changes over the "normal" vaccinated kids perhaps?
Better Diet - Confounding Variable?
posted by a concerned mom on 25 Nov 2011 at 6:29 am
Obviously, this is far from a scientific study. There are plenty of reasons why parents who choose not to vaccinate have lower rates of ADHD and Autism than those who do, the least of which is diet. ADHD in particular has found to be highly controllable by diet. A diet free of additives and preservatives can make all or most symptoms go away in many children. An obvious hypothesis would be the parents who choose not to vaccinate are much more conscious about what goes into their children's bodies and therefore, much more likely to feed them a natural diet. As a result, these children would be much less likely to exhibit the attention and behavioral disorders caused by food additives.
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